New L400 Diesel Owner - need help learning to diagnose issues!

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:58 am

Hi all,

New deli owner here (I have an L400 Spacegear 2800 Diesel)- and would very much appreciate some guidance on how to diagnose a few issues if possible - thanks in advance for your time and insights!

Not 100% sure what the issue is, so looking for some tips on how to diagnose and perhaps fix the issue.

Symptoms:

-white smoke on start up (not a ton but more than she had put out prior) - just had a flex pipe replaced on the exhaust pipe last week but seemed to run clean for 3-4 days after

-intermittent struggle on start up, 2/10 times she will need 3-4 attempts to get her going, otherwise starts like a dream (though has always struggled to start when warm - she seems to like to start from a cold engine, is this normal?)

-I'm also getting a second click about a minute into idle that I wasn't getting before (maybe a failing flow plug?)

-she is idling a bit lower than normal, and when driving seems to be revving higher to get speed though she still gets there, but as soon as I take my foot off the pedal she immediately drops about 500rpm

-she has a bit more vibration when idling and is sounding a bit deeper (like someone with a stuffy nose ... great description I know, sorry!)

She was running beautifully last week, and then went for a bit of a bumpy drive (nothing really intense just a bit of a flat, potholey FSR) so potential that something might be loose?

Very unsure about where to start in the elimination process and am not overly mechanical but keen to learn and want to be able to take care of her!

I have some videos if anyone wants to hear what she sounds like as well.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers,
Steph

poochike · Post by **poochike** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:17 am

Hey Steph,

What year is the van? Knowing if it's Series 1 or series 2 will help with diagnosis.

1. White smoke sounds like glow plugs . Further to this if your injectors are out of spec they will cause your glow plugs to fail faster.
2. The starting issue could also be glow plugs, but these vans also have an issue with the front seal on the injection pump. When this wears out it allows oil to leak into the fuel causing hard starts. That being said the start up is usually not effected as diesel is still at the injectors, but will stall out after a couple minutes once the oil reaches the injectors.
3. Second click is your glow plugs relay. If I'm not mistaken the glow plugs stay on for 3 minutes. Your hearing the relay shut off the plugs.
4. Sounds like a fuel deliver issue or perhaps starving for air. Have you changed your diesel filter and air filter? After driving on dusty fsr your airfilter can become plugged up. I have 2 filters, one for off road and one for city. It's a cheap place to start. If it's a series 2 clean the MAP sensor filter. It's the orange plastic thing attached to the intake manifold. Lordco has MAF/MAP sensor cleaner. Do not use anything oil based for this.

Once I know the year I may be able to guide you a bit more.

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:59 am

Oops, sorry! She's a '95.

Thanks for the helpful info!

1.Is there an easy way to test if any of/all the glow plugs are good/failing?
2.Sh'e's new to me but unsure of how the previous owner drove her, didn't provide too many details - I started using a diesel additive as I hear that helps avoid the wear out of the seals but might be too late. Guessing this is a bit harder to get to to check?
3.Ok, thanks! Is it strange that I wasn't hearing a second click for the first two months and now am hearing it?
4.Also unsure if previous owner replaced fuel filter, and air filter is on my list so will start with these two and see if she helps! Good tip on the 2 air filters - I have been told it is worth the money for the ones you can wash so was thinking about going this route

poochike wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:17 am Hey Steph,

What year is the van? Knowing if it's Series 1 or series 2 will help with diagnosis.

1. White smoke sounds like glow plugs . Further to this if your injectors are out of spec they will cause your glow plugs to fail faster.
2. The starting issue could also be glow plugs, but these vans also have an issue with the front seal on the injection pump. When this wears out it allows oil to leak into the fuel causing hard starts. That being said the start up is usually not effected as diesel is still at the injectors, but will stall out after a couple minutes once the oil reaches the injectors.
3. Second click is your glow plugs relay. If I'm not mistaken the glow plugs stay on for 3 minutes. Your hearing the relay shut off the plugs.
4. Sounds like a fuel deliver issue or perhaps starving for air. Have you changed your diesel filter and air filter? After driving on dusty fsr your airfilter can become plugged up. I have 2 filters, one for off road and one for city. It's a cheap place to start. If it's a series 2 clean the MAP sensor filter. It's the orange plastic thing attached to the intake manifold. Lordco has MAF/MAP sensor cleaner. Do not use anything oil based for this.

Once I know the year I may be able to guide you a bit more.

poochike · Post by **poochike** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:06 pm

1995 will be the series one so not electronic fuel injection. You can disregard the part about the MAP sensor, you don't have one.

1. Glow plug test. Only way I know is to pull them out and hook them straight to the battery to see if they Glow hot. Also you can visually inspect them which you can often tell just from that. Do a random Google search on Glow plug test and I'm sure you will get some better info. I believe you can ohm test them or something like that. Your injectors will have to be removed and tested to see if they need replacing or rebuilt (about the same cost). I believe it's recommended to do them every 80k km's so if you're above that and they haven't been done it's worth putting on the list.
2. The front seal is something a Delica mechanic could probably diagnose for you without too much trouble. It's good you're using an additive for lubrication. How many km's on the van?
3. On second thought the Glow plug relay kicks out after 3 min or when the van comes up to a certain temp (if I remember correctly). So with the colder weather they would be staying on longer as the van is taking a bit longer to warm up. There is lots of Glow plug info on here and also the Australian Delica forum, delicaclub.
4. I would stick with paper filter over the washable, especially for off road. The k&n filters (oil ones) clog up very quickly with dust. They are ok for around town. I have one in my storage if you really want to go that route and give it a try, you're welcome to mine at a deep discount.

Going back through your original post there is another thing that it may be and that's timing chain. If it's stretched in will cause hard starts and you'll get a chuffing type sound. This is something you would definitely want to get diagnosed by a reputable Delica guy. If you don't have one I can recommend some to you. If you ignore this it could be catastrophic.

DeliTan2 · Post by **DeliTan2** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:29 pm

I agree with the above suggestions but here's something about the glow plug relay:
When you turn the key to Glow, the relay will click on. Ignore the fact that the Glow light goes out and wait for the second click, which is the relay turning the Glow off. Then immediately start the engine. I throttle up to 1500 and hold it for a bit (based on EGT). The colder the engine is; the more you have to baby the throttle to get it to 1500 (can be rough). You will know what I mean if you try this.

BTW, when you turn the key from Glow to Start and then release it to Run, you have reset the glow plug relay and it cycles again. This is why it clicks off again after running or driving a bit.

When letting us know of problems, please let us know the state of engine warmth. Everything is different from cold to hot...

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:55 am

These problems seem to be regardless of temperature, though she does prefer starting from a cold engine, and struggles if she is already warm, my glow light is dead it seems, so I wait for the clicks - which doesn't happen when already warm.

[quote=poochike
[quote=DeliTan2 post_id=141667 time=1575854960 user_id=15864
When letting us know of problems, please let us know the state of engine warmth. Everything is different from cold to hot...
[/quote]

Noted on the paper filter, will give that a go as we have a lot of FSR access around Squamish. If you could recommend someone in the sea to sky that would be great, have heard both good and bad about a few places so hesitate to take it in with my lack of knowledge unless the shop or mechanic get good word of mouth. If it was the timing chain, should I avoid driving altogether until I get it sorted? I live in Squamish and was planning a trip to the island next week so thought I would see if I can book in at Coombs, but if that amount of driving is bad I might need to figure something else out.

post_id=141666 time=1575853607 user_id=8615]
Going back through your original post there is another thing that it may be and that's timing chain. If it's stretched in will cause hard starts and you'll get a chuffing type sound. This is something you would definitely want to get diagnosed by a reputable Delica guy. If you don't have one I can recommend some to you. If you ignore this it could be catastrophic.
[/quote]

poochike · Post by **poochike** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:21 pm

I am hesitant to give advice on whether to road trip in it or not. Would hate to say go for it and have you blow things up. I would call Coombs and ask what they think on the matter. Great guys and are always available to provide advice. If you can get it to them for the work needed all the better.

As far as mechanics up sea to sky I can't recommend any. Down here I like RJD in North Van, Butch at CVI is good for the series 1 (which you have) but is a bit of a mission. That's about all I can recommend for mechanics. The rest can be hit and miss in my experience.

Keep us posted

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:11 pm

Thanks for all of your help, very much appreciate it!

I will give Coombs a call and see what they say, fingers crossed. Will you posted!

TardisDeli · Post by **TardisDeli** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:10 pm

Definitely call Coombs, and do trust their advice, wonderful guys!

My thoughts: crappy fuel which got stirred up when you went over bumpy road, crud in bottom of tank then got stuck in fuel line (often stuck just ahead of injector pump... if you Very careful one can undo the input fuel line before IP and drain a bit into a small container but ensure u tighten line again PROPERLY & maybe need to bleed air out of fuel lines & injector before starting ... air in fuel lines make engine run really ROUGH). Note that ALL fuels break down if over 6 weeks old, they stratify into layers (diesel vs additives vs water vs crud), "Phase Separation" of the various chemical components (like a fancy mixed cocktail you buy in $$ posh restaurant).

Next most likely: cruddy air filter (damp road muck got inhaled onto your nice clean air filter. Just change it. Buy a spare at same time. Save the cruddy one for backroads (install it just before u get on muddy roads), keep the city one spotless.

Thirdly, weather has now gotten cooler. Cooler = rough Delica starts. Try plugging into house electric if you have a built in block-heater (that electric cord thingy with a 3 prong plug like on a normal extension cord ... that dangles near the engine) so that anti-freeze coolant (and maybe engine oil) is pre-warm before starting. There also will be a thermostat as part of your starting system to tell engine if it needs to do a cold-start or warm-start, ie tells glow plugs how long to pre-warm.

I am not L400 expert, am L300 cold start expert. But if you're really wanting to learn, could do a phone call together.

Welcome to The Cult. Christine.

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:04 pm

Unfortunate update - went to go start her last night and I get a start and then an immediate (pretty violent) stall out - took some time and tried again with same result.

Would I be correct in guessing this is one of the fuel pump/seal/injectors? Didn't want to call Coombs to diagnose over the phone if I can't realistically get it to them for the repair.

Anyone have any insight as to how difficult this would be to diagnose and repair for a first timer? Or how costly/complex if taken to a good diesel shop, or a deli mechanic?

She is also my 'daily driver' so hoping not to have her down for too long if possible.

poochike · Post by **poochike** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:36 am

Sorry to hear that, Steph. Are you able to get it started at all? If it's just the front seal once you crank through the oil and the van warms up it should give you no problems for the remainder of the day as long as.it stays warm.
If it's the injection pump it sounds like it may he more than just the front seal. If it's a full rebuild it will cost around $1400. Most shops will pull the pump and send it away for a rebuild and balance and then reinstall it. Butch at CVI and Coombs (I believe) are the only 2 I know who do in house rebuilds. Lots of guys say they do, but only do the seals not the balancing.
If it's your timing chain I'm not sure of the cost, but I think around the same.
I would still call Coombs or Butch at CVI. Even if you're not able to get to them they will still guide you. Very good people.

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:57 am

Thanks - I will give them a call, unfortunate to hear that only 2 months of having her and already in for such a big repair bill but knew it was going to be a bit of a passion project!

No start at all - but tried 3 times and gave it a rest, so might try again and see if I can get her started and drop her in CVI - don't want to risk the stops and starts to get her to the island with the ferries. But will see what they say. Really appreciate your time and feedback, it is a bit overwhelming to jump right into the deep end!

poochike wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:36 am

poochike · Post by **poochike** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:26 pm

Well hopefully it's something simple and not too expensive.

Good luck

stephboulanger · Post by **stephboulanger** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:46 pm

Got her to start today! Will be taking her into a local mechanic to make sure it is safe to drive and see if they can help narrow it down before heading to the island or north van with her.

In the meantime - does anyone happen to know the air filter part number for a 95 L400 Diesel? Did a search on here and only found the K&N reusable option. Going to start whittling away on the general maintenance as not sure how well she was loved before I got her.

poochike · Post by **poochike** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:06 pm

Good new you got it started and hopefully your local mechanic can sort you out. Don't know the part number off hand, but if you take it into Lordco they may he able to match it up. Otherwise you can get one from Japanoid, rising sun, Amazing auto.