roadside inspection nightmare

[joedelica]

As some of you might be aware; the RCMP on the North Shore have recently had huge roadblocks for inspections, seat belts, etc.
I had the unfortunate misfortune of driving through one at the Taylor Way exit yesterday morning. I was asked to pull over
probably because our Deli's stand out in a crowd for the main reason; the other being that my front trimmed license plate was attached
to my centre bull bar underneath our plastic shroud where the fog lights are mounted. (I know that a few of you out there have mounted
your plate in the same way.) The plate is fully visible from afar and there is nothing impeding the view of it from any angle.
I was informed without hesitation that my vehicle and license plates were being impounded and I was asked if I would require a
taxi at that point. To keep the story short and not to mention the verbal altercation that I was more than happy to engage in with
"Constable Ignoramous". I eventually was able to get new plates and had to have my insurance agent join me at the road block as
the RCMP would not release my plates to get new ones. (ICBC policy - no new plates issued, unless old are returned at that point in time)
After some banter we put on the new plates and I was issued a ticket for "improper display of plate" worth $196.
The officer stated that the vehicle act states something along the lines that you may not alter, paint, or visually impair
any plate. I took my licks and will win this one in court, no real concern, other than great inconvenience. As we were putting on the
new plates; the officer stated that while I was gone, one of the inspectors said that my headlights were not compliant, they were not
DOT approved. I stated "they do not have to be DOT approved", and that neither one of them new what they were talking about. I
grabbed my certified (with decal) compliance certificate that stated that my Deli received a full pass prior to registration and showed
both of them that I had compliant E13 headlights; "E" series headlights are on all BMW's (previously owned a 535i), Mercedes, Audi's, etc.
So if my Deli was not compliant, then the few thousand local German vehicles were not compliant, and why were they not pulling over
the hundred or so that were passing us by. The officer and inspector both shrugged, looked at each other, and I was then told to be on my
way, but that I should expect to be pulled over again because the headlights were not DOT approved.

I apologize about the rant for the community, but my point(s) for everyone is:
1) please carry your certified compliance certificate in your vehicle at all times(not a copy, as it does not have the required decal.)
2)keep a copy at home for your records, should anything happen to the originals.
3)if you know that you are in the right; do not back down or be intimidated because someone wears a uniform.
4)trust me, in this province, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing; and sometimes the hands may not even be on
the same body...ignorance breeds ignorance!

Deli's rule, but unfortunately we may as well have a big red bullseye painted on the front when it comes to a percentage of traffic cops
and roadside inspectors!

Have a great DELIcious weekend!

Joe

[jessef]

That sucks but it's pretty much expected driving these things.

How did you trim your front plate ?

Mine's folded up at the bottom but the numbers/letters are fully visible top to bottom.

Jesse

[joedelica]

Hi Jesse,

Caution: It just so happens that after our spanking, we gave a gentleman a ride to Park Royal insurance
due to the same issue with his plate being folded up on the bottom, but not impeding the view
of the numbers/letters.

My plate was cut top and bottom ("Euro style") with all numbers/letters unaffected.
I'll keep everyone informed as I fight the ticket. The officer also made an error,
he charged me under section 3.02 which states that a plate must be affixed to the
issued vehicle in a horizontal position. This was never an issue with my plate.

Cheers,

Joe

[deltadeli]

What a nightmare! I do not have a certified compliance certificate with decal for our Delica. I don't want to go through all that bullcrap either. Where do you get one of these certificates? Is the dealer responsible for supplying it or are we? Thanks in advance for your response. Brett H.

[joedelica]

Hi Brett,

Our certificate came from our dealer Japanoid; I do not know if there is any "requirement"
for the dealer to provide it. I believe most do and should provide the purchaser with the original.
If not, ask. If you purchased privately, maybe ask the seller?
The main query about our vehicles are generally the headlights.
Maybe someone can jump in on the thread that may know otherwise or have other info?

Cheers,

Joe

[JMK]

The question of headlights and compliance is confusing because apparently the inspectors themselves apparently are unclear about this topic. Therefore it may help to be armed with some of your own information before you go to face the inspector.

DOT Compliance: European nations, Australia, Japan, South Africa, and Canada recognize forward illumination lamp ECE (also called "e-code") compliance as certifiable for road use. (By contrast the US standard is SAE). This is outlined in the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, under the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations, by which the CMVSS are based. The authority to use E code headlamps is designate under Sec 108.1 sub (1) sub (a) with subsections i thru v defining which bulbs are compliant, with ECE Regulation No. 20 being the subsection of interest relevant to H4 bulbs, the most commonly used for conversions.

In summation then, any number after the E is acceptable, as long as the beam points the right way. If it has no beam direction marking at all on it, it is automatically a LHD headlight. If it has an arrow pointing to the right (as you look at it), it is RHD and not acceptable, and if it has arrows pointing both ways it is switch able and also acceptable.

As mentioned above, the regulations are province specific. In Alberta, compliance issues are covered in the Traffic Safety Act under Reg 322/2002, "Vehicle Equipment Regulation". Sec 4 sub (1) defines standards applicable under the Act. Of interest here and worthy of making note: sub (a) which give the above mentioned Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations their authority in Alberta. Then 4(3) sub (b) states: " A lamp or replacement lamp on a vehicle complies with this section if it has a mark or label on it that indicates in words or symbols that the appropriate standard has been met." I.E. the ECE markings referred to above. Although this regulation appears to indicate you do not need a high mount stop lamp, the "Inspection Methods and Standards Manual" states that you need this as well as other items (see "reminder" below).

Further resources...
Alberta Compliance :
Robert Ireland , Vehicle Safety Specialist
Alberta Infrastructure and Transportation
Transportation Safety Services Division
Vehicle Safety and Carrier Services Branch
Ph. 780-427-6798 , Fax 780-440-8717
Robert.Ireland@gov.ab.ca
(See: Program Notice, Vehicle Inspection Standards Reminder issued to ALberta Inspection facilities)

Errata:


CMVSS 108 (Canada) requires daytime running lamps on all vehicles made since 1 January 1990, while FMVSS 108 (USA) merely permits DRLs
CMVSS 108, through an adjunct called CMVSS 108.1, permits European Headlamps while FMVSS 108 prohibits them.
Both standards differ markedly from the ECE ("European") standards used in most other countries worldwide, not only in technical provisions, terminology, and requirements, but in format: Each European standard deals with only one type of device, while the single U.S. and Canadian standards regulate all devices.

What lights do I buy?
Some vehicles that have the same body type sold in North America may have factory headlight modules available from the North American dealers. This is true of the Toyota Land Cruiser. However, they are $900.00 and the eCode lights are about $350.00. So for most, the short answer is E code lights. For a vehicle like the Delica, eCode lights are your only option. Which e-code lights? Lights that come from an area where they drive on the left side of the road. On the lights you are buying,( the following information taken from Daniel Stern Lighting Web site and reproduced here for reader's convenience ) the uppercase "E" in a circle means the device is type approved to an ECE Regulation, while the lowercase "e" in a box indicates the device is type approved to an EEC Directive. It's rare to find one marking without the other, since the requirements are essentially identical. The number after the "E" or "e" signifies the country in which approval was granted. This doesn't necessarily indicate anything about the quality or performance of the device, though some countries' test-and-approval labs have reputations for being much stricter and others have reputations for being quite lax. The number also doesn't indicate where the device was designed or manufactured. Under ECE and EEC regulations, an item of motor vehicle equipment type approved in any ECE or EEC member country is acceptable for use in any other country that permits or requires vehicles and vehicle components conforming to ECE or EEC safety regulations. Many Canadian importers who offer conversion equipment seem to be offering E13 (Luxembourg) or E11 (UK) coded light pods.
(End of quote from Daniel Stern Web site).

Finally, a few observations, thanks to Brian Halliwell of Calgary:
"H4" is an axial hi-low beam pattern as opposed to the North American parallel pattern. In Canada, Bosch SBQ11 or SBQ7's from Canadian Tire are the equivalent of an H4 European Code headlight. (7's are 7" round headlamps and 11 is 5X7 square pattern). In B.C. where they have Lordco stores you may source Hella where they have a different numbering system, E.G. "6024" for SQB7's. Parts Source in Calgary was another store that had the Hella's which cost about $50.00 more than the Bosch.

It may interest the reader to know that Daniel Stern has done an extensive and very detailed comparative engineering and performance analysis of Japanese vs. SAE vs. ECE automotive lighting standards that clearly demonstrates the functional equivalence of most Japanese-spec lighting devices to applicable Canadian standards (brake lamps, tail lamps, reversing lamps, turn signals front-side-rear, parking lamps, fog lamps...basically everything except headlamps). This analysis has been very effectively used in some Canadian jurisdictions to gain official approval of many automotive lighting devices not bearing SAE or DOT marks. This analysis is available for purchase to any interested party who is in the process of working with their local authorities regarding the question of compliance standards.

[Adrock]

My front license plate hasn't been touched by a human hand since the say it was put on. But it is in rough shape. In fact it is almost confusing to read, because of a particularly nasty rock I encountered. I have no plans to get my hands dirty by straightening the license plate. You got cops at the end of the month apparently. I got a ticket for going through a yellow light (if anyone knows delicas, the stopping distance is greater than your average car, especially fully loaded with my work gear) but the officer (albeit a dickhead) said nothing about the vehicle itself. Just your standard, unreasonable, i'm right because I have a book of tickets VPD officer. I didn't fight it because a day of work is worth more to me. It still bothers me today that I didn't though, just because I was right. You must stop unless unsafe to do so, I told the cop it wa sn't safe to stop because I'd get hit in the head with tools and pipe and all kinds of crazy things, not to mention the screeching tires right beside a cop stuck behind a elft turner at an intersection. He said get a cargo net and proceeded to write me the ticket.

My point is, I have not had a respectable experience with police officers even given that I rarely break the law, even traffic laws. and even still, have not been hassled about my van and its compliance issues, even by icbc when making a claim. Although I was informed shortly after I made a claim by Mardy that my headlights weren't even E-code. And spent $300 out of my own pocket to have headlights that should have been on to pass inspection in the first place. Look hard enough and you will see who I bought from, I have never mentioned this before and I won't associate this issue with the dealer, however I am upset by it, and although I haven't been back to inform the dealer of this obvious violation (of provincial law as well as his own integrity) I think I may, see what he has to say about it. I'm also missing DRLs, but I give him the benefit of the doubt and figure that since my vehicle was manufactured before they were required on domestic vehicles that it is not required. If I have issues with it it comes back to him though, no question about it.

[jessef]

And spent $300 out of my own pocket to have headlights that should have been on to pass inspection in the first place. Look hard enough and you will see who I bought from, I have never mentioned this before and I won't associate this issue with the dealer, however I am upset by it, and although I haven't been back to inform the dealer of this obvious violation (of provincial law as well as his own integrity) I think I may, see what he has to say about it. I'm also missing DRLs, but I give him the benefit of the doubt and figure that since my vehicle was manufactured before they were required on domestic vehicles that it is not required. If I have issues with it it comes back to him though, no question about it.

Ouch.



I heard others saying the same thing about this dealer last year.

They must have changed their policy because they are getting better remarks from others on this board.

[MardyDelica]

Usually, if you are the original importer you get the copy of original inspection cetificate. but if you got it from the dealer or other importer you can only get a copy on it. make sure the inspection sticker match the vin number of your vehicle.
save the copy & put one in your vehicle. if officer ask you about this,tell them this is the only copy you got as you are not the original importer. inform them that icbc has a copy of this inspection & cannot insured it without this.
as for no dot or Sae mark on your headlight, pls explaine to them that motor vehicle authority in Victoria approved & adopt this e-mark code headlight. as long as the headlight has a straight beam pattern or the beam pattern is aiming to the right not left, then it consider the headlight is design for a left hand drive vehicle. let them know that Brian kangas from prov. motor vehicle inspection authority in Victoria knows about this changes that they adopt, check ,study & pass this e-mark code in consideration of which beam pattern its aiming. as they inform this changes thru there provincial inspector representative or you call any provincial inspection facility. thats why we can pass the inspection for our delica. just have to explaine it to them if in case they dont know. as many officer now is new & some of them dont know of the new rules. but make sure you have all side reflector front & rear.
also make sure you have a third brake light on your delica just in case ,as older delica dont have a rear third brake light.
hope this help,
cheers:

[konadog]

What a crummy way to start the day! Sorry about your hassles. Good for you for standing up for yourself. Cops can be funny - kinda like a dog with a dominance chip on his shoulder sniffing out another dog. As the other dog, it's generally best to come off calm and submissive. I don't mean give up when they are out of line as in the headlight issue, but just play their game. They are keenly searching for any sign of resistance so they can come down harder. "I was speeding? No excuse, I was careless, sorry, won't happen again " Has on more than one occasion bought me a "Well, you weren't a jerk, so I'm gonna let you off with a warning, just be more careful." Remember these guys take crap all day everyday so you have to assume they are going to be testy. It can be hard, but try to not take it personally. A front plate that has been obviously banged up from use won't catch any notice, but one that has been purposely modified will likely be seen as a challenge and an open door to push harder and find more to hassle you about. And they are not all out to get Delicas - I met one deli owner who got pulled over just so the cop could get a close up look at "these COOL vehicles!"

[MardyDelica]

Also to add to this problem,
Delica with E-code mark E13 (Southeast) = Aprroved By ECU From Luxemberg which is left hand drive country.
Delica with E-coded mark E-4 (Depo) = Aprroved By ECU from Neitherland
also a left hand drive country.
so this is a plus to inform them if they stop you inquiring about the headlight to kin them to understand how different Headlights works not only for american spec model car but also for european spec vehicle but design for left hand drive country not a rhd country.
cheers:
Mardy

[Jaz]

Just out of curiosity gents, are there documents referring to the allowing of E-code headlights to be used on Canadian roads, and if so, would we be able to track them down and host them up here so that everyone can print them out and put them in the glove box?

I find it helps to shut a PO up if you have official looking documentation backing you up - just as Joe found with his import cert.

[JMK]

would we be able to track them down and host them up here so that everyone can print them out and put them in the glove box?

The post I made above was hopefully going to address this, it's probably too long for most people to read so it is apparently being overlooked.

This is the most relevant part to make note of:

The authority to use E code headlamps is designate under Sec 108.1 sub (1) sub (a) with subsections i thru v defining which bulbs are compliant, with ECE Regulation No. 20 being the subsection of interest relevant to H4 bulbs, the most commonly used for conversions.

The above post, plus additional info with links to the regulations and documents are from the second paragraph of this page, so in fact it is already posted:

http://imports.mparam.com/procedures/headlights.cfm

[mararmeisto]

My front license plate hasn't been touched by a human hand since the say it was put on. But it is in rough shape. In fact it is almost confusing to read, because of a particularly nasty rock I encountered...

Silly thing is, it doesn't matter WHAT your plate looks like as long as it's readable (which of course is the subjective part, and that would be the peace officer's part, not yours). That being said, you cannot "alter, obliterate or repaint" letters or figures in order to make it readable. The thing to realise is that ICBC owns the plate - you're just 'leasing' it for the duration of time you've got it properly affixed to your vehicle.

I'm not sticking up for the cop, but as the one poster indicates, just cause THEY know the rules, doesn't mean WE can't too. Check out this link: BC Motor Vehicle Act. With reference to joedelica's encounter, read S.74(1)(d).

And for those in other threads asking about the Japanese plates some of us have (or those European plates on the BMWs or VWs or Ferraris or Porsches), S.74(1)(b)(ii) is the pertinent part, but only if you've got a plate that "is of a colour or design resembling or purporting to be a number plate... issued under this act". In other words, if you're trying to pass it off as a BC plate, you're in the wrong.

That being said, last time I checked, BC plates were ALWAYS issued with Roman letters, never any Kanji.

White backgrounds with black letters/figures, yes.

Black backgrounds with yellow letters/figures, yup.

But NEVER any plates with luminescent paint - reflective paint, but not luminescent.

[after oil]

Just out of curiosity gents, are there documents referring to the allowing of E-code headlights to be used on Canadian roads, and if so, would we be able to track them down and host them up here so that everyone can print them out and put them in the glove box?

I find it helps to shut a PO up if you have official looking documentation backing you up - just as Joe found with his import cert.

here is the government page showing e code is okay. i suggest to print it out and have it in the glovey with all your other documents
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_in ... ements.pdf