So, I'm going to make air-water-air IC kits. I've worked out the logistics and figure this could be the answer to the issue of efficient placement given our space limitations.
Here's a rough representation of sizing. I'm working on the layout,As you can see with the mounts, a bracket won't be hard to fab.
I'll be fabbing up some nice purged stainless piping which should run a minimal length and have as few degrees of bending as possible. It should be fun to see what comes of this. Another goal is to keep it tidy. I'm hoping to use as many of the factory mounting locations as possible.
BTW, trust me, I know what I'm getting myself into, and everything is easier said than done. But, I've been there before in a far more cramped situation, so, I should be able to take care of this.
Anybody else interested in this idea (I'm pretty sure Mararmeisto is )
Last edited by Chewy on Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hey all, good to see some interest! makes it worth while to make a jig for piping. Any ideas welcome, (ie. bungs for water/meth or powdercoating)
Generally the merit to the air/water is that we can save space and reduce piping and therefore lag, while reaping the benefits of a similar air/air system. The drawback is the cost, I'm estimating somewhere in the $600-650(hoping to get this down as I'm estimating high) range for the whole bit including piping. The profit, if any, would be nominal and would pay for my time and consumables, at least for club members, so if anybody can find parts cheaper to help get pricing down, let me know. That however, includes EVERYTHING needed for install, it will be like Ikea, except all the bolts will be there and I won't supply you with a goofy little tool.
The cooling efficiency of water on aluminum is 14x greater than air to aluminum, that should help keep the actual radiator core size down. The issue I'm working out at the moment is whether to go for a slightly bigger radiator core, as diesel's are different than petrol. The turbo is almost always under boost even at idle, thus always generating heat, over a petrol, which is in vaccuum unless you get into the throttle. Just making sure there is no chance of heat soaking the system whatsoever.
I'm at work and have to do some of what I get paid to do :D... more on this later. any ideas welcome!
Im interested in your design for the water tank & pump, Ive done a few air intercoolers now on L300 Delicas, I found for the size of our turbos and air flow the intercooler off a turbo ford probe and even some of the turbo K cars, eagle talons work Great, and cheap also, Ive been able to pick them up from the wreckers for around $100, the plumbing is anywhere from $50- $120 depending on where the customer wants it mounted, and if they source there own elbows or how much involvment i have, I have one here right now that took a big bouncy something , probably a rock and put a hole in it, good thing its so easy to weld.
but for under/around $200 you can do an air intercooler if you willing do so some sourcing from wreckers, I find its important to let them know your trying an Experiment so somehting cheap and convienent, Once the wreckers know you NEED it or REALLY want it, the price seems to Quadroople.
the best water cooled intercoolers have the nice little fan on them also , I was looking at an Amazing one from John at Rad cruisers for my Landcruiser, but its alot more money.
Post some picts of what you plan to use for your water tank and pump, this will be a great upgrade for the 4cyl diesel powered engine,
but if your going to make better air into it, enlarge your exhaust also, no point breating in, if it cant get out..
Just making sure there is no chance of heat soaking the system whatsoever.
I'm at work and have to do some of what I get paid to do :D... more on this later. any ideas welcome!
Heat sinks are easy to make, and fit in all sorts of places, but if you put your water tank up infront of the rad with maybe some expanded alum around it so its protected by rocks or comissionaires from bouncing up and snaging it , that way the air dam that scoops the air up, will help make air flow over it.....
Good idea Noel, we should grab some coffee and collaborate...I'd considered tossing some heat sink fins on the reservoir, but I'm hoping it will be efficient enough to not need it. The setup I'm describing will have a 13"x10"x2" radiator with an 8.25" E-Fan(sorry, so busy, didn't even mention that), which could be mounted above the scoop similar to the radiator, or elsewhere due to it having lengths of hose I could set it up with. All of which is what makes it a bit pricey. Right now, I don't have a set design for the tank as the supplier at frozenboost has a tank that isn't really what I want. Could you guys weld up a tank? (I don't have a high frequency for aluminum)
Forgive me for being ignorant... but could somebody bring me up to speed as to the benefits of a turbo intercooler. I know that it's a good thing and that it is better with than without one... but what exactly (or approximately) could be expected:
Are the benefits any of the below (and if yes, can they be quantified in %, added horsepower, torque, less chance of overheating etc.)?
- Increased power (i.e. kw/hp)?
- Increased torque?
- Increased turbo boost capacity (without premature turbo failure due to overheating)
- Savings at the diesel pump (i.e. increased fuel economy)?
- Higher top speeds?
- Less thermal wear on turbo / cylinder head?
- Any other benefits that I may not think of?
- Any risk of additional wear on mechanical parts (pistons, valves, cranks etc.... or transmission?)
Also, if you have an intercooler, where would you mount the radiator on a L300 Delica?
And I understand that you indicated in your post that you would have an electric fan (would this eliminate the need to have a radiator placed with exposure to oncoming air when driving? - as the space on where to put such a radiator is somewhat limited)
Would you also need a pump to push the water through the intercooler to the radiator and back or would it be more like a heat exchange with no constant flow?
Unfortunately I have no mechanical background and really don't know very much about diesels - but I like this idea very much and if it may help increase power output on the van while also providing added thermal protection, I think it would be a good investment.
Thanks for your patience with me.... look forward to any of your answers...
your turbo sends air to your intake manifold, and colder air makes a bigger BOOM. Bigger boom=more power, since your turbo is spooled up from your engines exhaust, it tends to get HOT, REAL hot, so you plumb your air coming out of your turbo into a Radiator of sorts called an Intercooler, but that only has air in it, the air flowing over the cooling fins cools the air and routes it to the air IN of your Intake manifold, so you have cooler more dense air, More BOOM. so if you add water cooling into a specially designed intercooler, (the radiator type thingy for air) the water pulls more of the Heat out of the air and you have REALLY dense air, alot of cars with high end systems go as far as to have a Co2 fogger that they turn on just befor they race so it Ice's up the intercooler and make the Most dense air.
So the intercooler will give your van More Power, another way is to take off that EGR valve, that stupid thing take the hottest air you have right from the exhaust manifold and sends it into your intake manifold, Super heating the air, and dumping exhaust gas into your combustion chamber, True efficency....
and Yes I do have the High frequency Tig , I bought it Just for welding Aluminium, works GREAT, Once I get caught up on doing these roof racks, im going to make a custom console on my landcruiser with a raised section for all the gauges. going to be Really sweet.
the nice part about the aluminium welding for intercoolers, as I can just cut and weld up any angle i need for hose routing. I have the Intercooler out of my old 760 turbo volvo, that is going to go into my L400 , they allready have one, but i have a larger turbo, so i want to beef it up a bit, and make it a bit more custom.
Im not actually sure of what turbo i have in my L400, but I know its been replaced with a larger one, and that one had the upgraded fins put in also, Im hoping the lag wont be bad, but i know once i spool up, it will FLY!!!!!!!!!
My last delica (L300) that I was planing to keep also had the turbo rebuilt with larger and faster fin pitch, the head was ported out and the exhaust was all 2.5 Stainless, that L300 would do 140Km@26-2800 RPM, it was also geared for highway, but still for a lifted up L300 it did pretty good.
I did a solid front axel conversion on one delica well over a year ago, I sure wish he would post some picts of it, was Impressive work, but not somehting I would want to do again, or at least for such little money, these are fun vans, but sometimes a good challange to modify.
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