ECU - Another question - Sorry...

[impalator]

Hi everybody,

Those darn ECU and Glow Plug questions... sorry... I had already posted an earlier ECU question at one point - but here is my final ECU question: I promise!

As my ECU - aside from properly doing its job upon cold start-up - used to keep on clicking on and off insanely - even during regular driving (sometimes I would hear the darn thing klick in after an hour drive or so... for example the North Van to Chilliwack stretch - and in Chilliwack it would still be clicking.... go figure - you'd think that by Chilliwack your engine should have reached normal operating temperature so that no further ECU / Glow-Plug action was required ...)

As a result I burned through 3 sets of Glow-Plugs in very short succession. In order not to burn a fourth set, I had CVI check out my ECU and Butch suggested that - as a result of faulty DRL wiring by the dealer (VIB!!) my ECU actually got burnt/damaged. In order to solve the problem, he bypassed the ECU and I since have to engage the glow-plugs manually with a push-button on the dash board.

I never had burnt plugs since that. I simply push the button for about 5 seconds or so and then turn the key to "start" and it always starts. The ECU appears to be still connected to the power (but not to the glow-plugs) as it keeps clicking in - and out as you'd expect on a normal Deli during start-up.

Now here is my problem / question:

My Van spews out huge clouds of blueish / grayish / blackish smoke (the full meal deal diesel stink - but lots of it) during the initial warm-up process (first minute of running) and initially idles very rough. I tried to cope by "givin' er" another couple of short manual blasts with the glow plugs - which doesn't really seem to help in any way... Once it's warm and driving, the smoke stops... In the winter it's even worse (more smoke and longer warm-up) - I think all my neighbors hate me when they see me approach the van with the keys in my hand...

I remember on a recent post, somebody wrote that they highly recommend not bypassing the ECU - and incidentally - the warm up with the ECU connected, never resulted in a nasty smoke extravaganza... (a bit of smoke - yes... but smoke-grenade like diesel fog... no)

I would really like to have my ECU reconnected - but at the same time, I really don't want it to keep on burning one set of glow-plugs after another.

Does anybody have some suggestions?

- Is it hard to fix the ECU (I suck at soldering and stuff like that - don't wanna touch it myself)
- Is there somebody in the Delica.ca community who likes fixing ECU's?
- Is there a way to rebuild an ECU (take it to a shop or so)? If yes, who, where, at what cost?
- Are used ECU's "readily" available? Where, at what cost... any leads?
- Should I just shut up and live with my smoke generator?

Thanks for your insight... Any feedback is welcome... even snobby/nerdy one....

Cheers,
Chris

[snelson]

Hmm, I have the manual GP override too - it was installed by the previous owner, and I don't get any big clouds of smoke on start up.

In the winter maybe a little more that usual in the summer, but all in all, fairly average smoke when starting, nothing that the neighbours would complain about :) .

I also hear the click in the panel next to my head when I click on/off the plugs for 5 seconds, so something is still happening back at the ECU on mine too.

I know this isn't all that helpful, other than to say I have the same setup as you, minus the major smoke at startup.

I would suspect something to do with the temperature sensors and injection pump dumping in too much fuel, but why I don't know.
Have your injectors been CVI cleaned? Perhaps that might help with the rough idleing at start up??
I've never been to CVI, but I would think they'd be able to sort this out for you, no??

Cheers
Steve

[mararmeisto]

Is the water temperature gauge on the dash reading correctly? Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2-scale deflection?

[Modsqwad]

Did it smoke like that before you took the glow plug control out of the circuit and went manual?
Andy Wilson

[marsgal42]

The usual glow plug controller failure mode is leaking capacitors with the resulting glop eating though traces on the circuit board. This is easy to fix.

If your controller was fried by bad wiring there is no telling what's wrong with it, nor any way to suggest how to fix it.

...laura

[impalator]

The water-temp gauge works fine.... it'll go up to about 1/4 of the scale under normal conditions... Last drive up the coquihalla it went just short of 1/2.. dropped back down to 1/3 - 1/4th once the road evens out... I must assume all is ok there...

It did not smoke that bad when still firing with the ECU... - until of course I started to do all compression starts once all plugs were burnt out - then the smoke was really really bad...

On second thought... after re-reading my post: I wonder if maybe a cylinder (or two.... or three ) still start without glow-plug and on compression alone? That would explain the smoke... Why did I not think of that first... I actually had to re-read my own post to get to that conclusion.... ts.ts... Since I have not checked the glow-plugs lately I should probably do that.

However, I would still be very interested to get some feedback as to where I could take my ECU to get it checked over and fixed if possible... of if anybody has a working, used and cheap ECU to part with?

Cheers,
Chris

[Modsqwad]

My first stop would be the guys at C. C. Auto. They have quite a good stock of used bits. Good people to deal with as well, very knowledgeable and ready to help with suggestions I'm not in touch with the mainland so can't suggest anyone on your side. Buen
Suerte.
Andy Wilson

[JMK]

I won't comment on the use of a manual overide switch, I used one while my ECU was being rebuilt and it did the job, but I don't see it as being a desirable long term approach.

I had my ECU rebuilt in Texas by people that just do that and therefore probably know what they are doing. My glow plugs have not gone south on me. It seems to be working fine ever since. I used these guys:

http://www.ecmtogo.com/

I'm also on the record as stating there seems to be sufficient evidence to support the theory that if you have a 15 yr old Delica and you never had the ECU rebuilt, then it must be done. (This evidence relates to the life expectancy of the electrolyte that was used in the capacitors of the ECU's when these machines were built).

[snelson]

I'd like to hear why a manual override shouldn't be used - is there damage I'm doing by relying on a manual switch?
Thanks
Steve

[JMK]

Steve,

I think it was gone over quite a bit in previous threads in quite a bit of detail with arguements on both sides. I personally agree with Glen of CC Autos that the ECU with a connector harness with 24 connection points and intricate logic circuits probably does a lot more than just punch your glow plugs indiscriminantly for 8 seconds or so, but that is just my seat of the pants opinion. All I can say is I did both, and it has run significantly better since I had it rebuilt and tested professionally, others however, may not have the same result.

[Blackberry]

I used these guys:
http://www.ecmtogo.com/
I'm also on the record as stating there seems to be sufficient evidence to support the theory that if you have a 15 yr old Delica and you never had the ECU rebuilt, then it must be done. (This evidence relates to the life expectancy of the electrolyte that was used in the capacitors of the ECU's when these machines were built).

I'd second that, not due to problems with my Delica's ECU (fingers crossed) but because I've a '92 Mazda PU that is running odd and I'm researching possible problems and there's tons of cases with this era Mazda with malfunctioning ECUs and, lo & behold, my Mazda has many electrical parts on it made by Mitsubishi. I wouldn't be surprised if both M & M's ECUs were produced by the same manufacturer and therefore suffer the same problem. For the Mazda many recommend these guys for their ECU rebuild:
http://www.avproecm.com/ Check out their home page for list of ECU part numbers that they rebuild, as well as detailed info/photos on the problem/fix. There's also a site or 2 out there showing which capacitors tend to melt and how to DIY repair.

[Erebus]

There is a temperature sensor on the engine that feeds data to the ECU for glow plug control. It is a dual sensor, in that it also feeds the instrument panel temp guage. If that sensor (the ECU side) is faulty, it will make the ECU click the glow plugs on/off like crazy, just as you describe, which also burns out the glow plugs.

So it is possible the ECU is fine, but the sensor isn't. Easy to test if you can get hold of another sensor to swap. But you would have to re-connect the ECU.

To see photos of exactly where that sensor is, search this site. Pretty sure Green1 has posted photos in one of his tales of woe.

[Modsqwad]

I keep hearing about the 24 odd inputs going into the ECU and speculation about what it controls other than glow plugs and egr. It would be nice to know exactly what this chinga dera does and if its the reason my van gets such sub standard fuel economy(14L/100KM). I wonder if any of the other delica sites (uk , australia) might know something we don't?
Andy Wilson

[norisan]

I would suspect that the smoke and rough idle could be related to a dirty injector(s) with a bad spray pattern. the smoke and rough idle will usually disappear once the engine warms a little, and not re appear until the next cold start.

[coaxial]

it's a fairly easy fix, lots of discussion on it in this thread. I even did it without soldering, just some wire and glue and it's been fine ever since photos included even.


http://www.delica.ca/forum/help-glowplu ... -1382.html