Better L400 urban mileage in second ("Hold") gear?

[tonydca]

I do a large percentage of my driving on the level here in the concrete jungle in Vancouver, and I'm finding that the torquey-ness of the motor is far more than sufficient to shove the beast around at a good clip.

I have to be fairly gentle on the throttle to avoid a noticeable shift from 1-2; I think the transmission is working just fine, only that first is geared a bit low for my needs. My gutless old Corolla would upshift at the slightest provocation (unless you really had your foot deep in the throttle) and was smooth as silk. I also sense that my fuel economy would be better served by running in taller gearing.

So I've been running for a while with the transmission in "Hold" mode, and the 2-3 shift is much smoother. You move off at a slightly more sedate speed, but it is still more than enough to toodle around in traffic.

My plan was to run a tank full in regular mode and a tank full in "Hold" mode, and report if I find a noticeable difference in mileage, but...

I'm wondering if running this way over a longer-term would be bad for the engine/tranny in any way. It still spools up to around 2Krpm (where the torque peak is) fairly quickly, so I don't feel that I'm lugging the engine in any way, and I'd downshift to first on short and slow steep hills, but I thought I'd see if anyone out there with more diesel drivetrain experience than me has any thoughts on the matter.

Tony

[jessef]

Hold Mode: - Hold showing on dash (usually off) - For use when moving off, from stationary, on snow or slippery road surfaces. When the gear selector is placed in 'D' position, the vehicle is forced to take off in 2nd gear rather than 1st, to make starting easier, then go into normal mode. This saves having to have the gear selector in 2 then move into D after you get going. It also restrict the maximum revs of the engine to 3000rpm (approx). Note: The Delica Manual states:- "low revs, when under high load will generate more heat in the gearbox. You can flip the A/T switch to any mode whilst driving without taking the vehicle out of gear.

Keep an eye on the A/T temp light while driving with HOLD on.

I don't see a problem driving around the city like that unless you're driving up hills constantly with HOLD on.

You can also control the shift points while feathering the throttle. Takes a while to get used to, but you'll find those sweet spots.

I haven't noticed any difference driving around the city, conservatively, aggressively, etc... for mpg.

I get a constant 12L/100km but I'm running 31.5" tires and I re-calculated my mpg based on gps.

Highway I get a constant 10-12L/100km unless I'm flooring it past 120km/hr in which case I'll get around 13-14L/100km.

[tonydca]

Yeah, it's the "when under high load" part that would definitely be an issue. For flat sedate urban driving, it's about as low a load as possible, so I'm thinking it'll be OK. Good point about the A/T light, tho'.

I'll see if it makes any difference for my mileage.

[gnarly]

I don't get 12 L/100km, sadly.

I keep track of all my vehicles fuel economy in a spreadsheet. See attached. Sadly my 96 Voyager gasser with 280,000 km has the best fuel economy than any of my existing vans, and it is loaded with tools.

I was hoping for better fuel economy out of my L400 van. I always brag to my friends how Diesel is so much more fuel efficient. I guess the L400 is a pretty big beast.

I'll keep a close eye on this thread to see how you save on urban driving.

BTW it seems for my ride, that running autogas' B5 biodiesel gave me the best milage. Go figure.

[jessef]

A 2.5 - 3" exhaust , new airfilter , fuel filter and new injectors will make a massive impact on your mpg.

The injectors and filters alone netted me 2.7 mpg.

The 2.5" exhaust helped the engine to breath = less foot on the throttle = better mpg.

I drove around in hold mode for the past 20 mins.

It's quite nice. Smooth takeoff and instead of the engine working past 3krpm, the turbo is doing the work at 2,2k rpm.

I'll keep driving around town with hold on and test as well.

I like it so far.

[djelica]

Hold Mode: - Hold showing on dash (usually off) - For use when moving off, from stationary, on snow or slippery road surfaces. When the gear selector is placed in 'D' position, the vehicle is forced to take off in 2nd gear rather than 1st, to make starting easier, then go into normal mode. This saves having to have the gear selector in 2 then move into D after you get going. It also restrict the maximum revs of the engine to 3000rpm (approx). Note: The Delica Manual states:- "low revs, when under high load will generate more heat in the gearbox. You can flip the A/T switch to any mode whilst driving without taking the vehicle out of gear.

Hi Jesse,

Do you know if there is more information on using hold versus power versus normal for different driving conditions (for starters where does this quote come from I have searched for it but only this thread comes up).

Coming off of only driving standards, driving an automatic is a new experience. I am loathe to touch my brakes in current conditions and will do anything I can to avoid using them so I am manually shifting down when descending slippery hills.

Since reading this I have tried the “hold mode” a few times. Does it also somehow control up shifting when going downhill? Why I ask is that the vehicle seems to hold its speed going down hills better when in "hold" and I wonder if this is part of the "hold" package. Do you know if it is alright to use "Hold Mode" and still manually downshift into low gear?

If I (or anyone) can get a good idea of how the transmission is modified by things like dash switches then driving becomes just that much easier and pleasant under conditions that can often make driving not so great of an experience.

It's the experiences that others have and offer back here that is huge value to everyone.

So if PWR mode is actually better for certain conditions it would be nice to know. As for Hold being good for gas milage under certain conditions, this is a very useful piece of information and thanks to tonydca for posting his original findings.

Cheers

[jessef]

I haven't noticed HOLD better than normal AT mode going downhill.

I haven't found any links or information that you can shift between L/2/D whilst changing the AT mode between HOLD/Normal/PWR.

Hold mode feels smoother in the city, but I would be weary to use it 24/7 as it would generate more heat in the gearbox (like Mitsubishi says above), especially in hilly areas.

Just want to make certain that I'm not advising using HOLD in the city as normal driving.

I've been using it on and off on mine and making sure that it's not in HOLD mode while going up hills.

Cheers
Jesse

[djelica]

Hi Jesse,

These days are defiantly not "normal" driving, so I am experimenting with different modes.

It's the part that "Hold" is good for slippery conditions that makes me want to know what Mitsubishi had in mind with these controls.

So that quote is from Mitsubishi? Is there more of it?

Thanks, Darren

[jessef]

I pulled it from mdocuk site.

http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18735


Delica L400 (Superselect) OD (overdrive) button - A/T swich and 4WD gear floor shift Control & Switches info, for new owners:

OVERDRIVE SWITCH
Overdrive device is operational when the selector lever is on D position

NORMAL DRIVE
Turn the switch ON. Changes gear from 1st to 4th automatically. Ensures economical driving performance.

HILLY DRIVE
Turn the switch OFF. Changes from 1st to 3rd automatically. Use when descending long slopes where engine braking is necessary.
NB: When the button is out it is off and an orange coloured dash warning light will state OD OFF:



The OD can be left on all the time, apart from when you need the extra braking assistance.

General tips to keep the fuel economy down includes having the right pressures for whatever tyre you are using. Have good quality clean oil in the engine, diffs (all 3 diffs) and Transmission. If you haven't done it yet then change them.

Here's a picture of AT Fluids so you can check how yours are.



Note: Do not confuse Dash warning light A/T with the A/T switch, they are not connected. That warning light indicates the Auto Transmission fluid is overheating.

AT switch

Normal Mode: - Central position, no warning light showing on dash - Used for a normal, economical, quiet and smooth drive.

Power Mode: - PWR showing on dash (usually off) - Used for faster acceleration, by forcing the engine into a higher RPM mode before gears are changed up.

Hold Mode: - Hold showing on dash (usually off) - For use when moving off, from stationary, on snow or slippery road surfaces. When the gear selector is placed in 'D' position, the vehicle is forced to take off in 2nd gear rather than 1st, to make starting easier, then go into normal mode. This saves having to have the gear selector in 2 then move into D after you get going. It also restrict the maximum revs of the engine to 3000rpm (approx). Note: The Delica Manual states:- "low revs, when under high load will generate more heat in the gearbox. You can flip the A/T switch to any mode whilst driving without taking the vehicle out of gear.


4WD Floor Lever - Super select models
When pulled back to the rearmost setting the Deli will be in two wheel drive mode (2WD). Two green lights on dash unit will indicate rear wheels only are being driven.

One position forward is four wheel drive mode (4WD), this actually gives you more control and road holding on corners. Two additional green dash lights will indicate front wheels are being driven. You can drive in 2WD or 4WD on roads or off road with no problems.

The Superselect L400 also allows the vehicle to move into or out of 4WD whilst moving at speeds up to 60mph (100Kmh), as stated in the Mitsubishi Manual.

The next position forward is the difflock. Used to assist when in more difficult offroad terrain, the orange difflock light will come on. Difflock is not used on the roads. Theoretically it can also be engaged whilst moving on slippery surfaces, according to the manual, but I prefer to stop before doing so.

The last position that the floor lever goes into requires you to press the lever downwards on itself, then move it to the right and forward. That engages the low gear range, for use offroad in particularly difficult terrain as required. Do not use it on the road you will damage the system.

Flashing green or orange lights indicates the transition phase between 4WD / Diffloclk / 2WD gear selections. Sometimes these continue flashing, requiring you to reverse for 30-40 yards to disengage the switch sensor. This is often due to lack of use of the 4WD system. Continued flashing lights indicate a faulty switch/sensor, or a problem in the vacuum servo air lines, such as an air leak. Note though; that provided you have taken the floor gear selector lever back to 2WD the 4WD system and Difflock will not be engaged. It will be safe to drive, but have the system checked.


To check if the Difflock is working or not:-


1. Jack up the front with both wheels off the ground. Keep the Column Gear Selector Lever in 'P'
2. With the ignition off and the vehicle in 2WD try turning a front wheel. Only that wheel should move.
3. Put it into 4WD and repeat the test. The wheel should turn whilst the other goes in the opposite direction.
4. Move the floor lever forward once notch to engage Difflock. The same as the last test should happen.
5. Turn on the ignition and repeat the last test. The wheel should not move!
6. DO NOT TAKE THE COLUMN GEAR LEVER OUT OF PARK AT ANY TIME, WHILST THE IGNITION IS ON
7. If you do - don't blame me for what happens. Confused

[Maddog64]

Gday folks,

Lumpy gear shifts, engine hitting high revs before changing up. Apart from the obvious issue of how you drive your car there is another alternative that you may wish too look into

TPS, throttle position sensor can be adjusted to allow the vehicle to change gears at lower rpm effecting smoother changes and also maybe beneficial to your fuel economy!

I am trying to find the "how too" on the Australian Delicacub site but am encountering a few minor problems at the moment. Will post this now and get the info a bit later

OK here tis This is a link to the "TPS adjustment how to" Australian Delicaclub downloads section.

Hope it works first up

Hope someone finds this handy

http://delicaclub.com/load.php?id=78

Cheers all

Maddog64

[djelica]

Hey great info Jesse and thanks for posting that here. Looks very useful.

Cheers Maddog64 for the info on the TPS and I like your ride. Have to ask about your fuel system some day. Sounds pretty interesting. I have yet to do my TPS adjust (along with adjusting the kickdown cable) but will try to get at this when it's a little nicer out to work under the hood (-16c right now). The Aussie site has some great downloads.

Take care, Darren

[tonydca]

Executive summary: - Check Your TPS. Time Well Spent IMHO.

I followed the Aussie info and had a look at my TPS this evening. Pictures and procedures are great, with one issue; there is a difference between my van and the comments on the Aussie download:

Several pictures show a plug into which he is inserting his positive (red) voltmeter probe. On my van this plug has three wires in a triangular arrangement when looking at the plug as follows:

Upper-left (driver's side) - dark blue with red stripe - +5V reference. Mine read +4.99V all the time, regardless of throttle position.
Upper-right (passenger side) - dark blue with yellow stripe - voltage readback from TPS
Bottom - black - ground?** (I can not verify this, but it appeared to be 0V on mine, and was not relevant to the adjustment anyways, so I didn't really look into it, measure resistance to battery (-), etc... I am assuming that the TPS is just a potentiometer, in which case ground makes sense)

So with my TPS screwed in place in what appeared to be the original factory setting (centred in its adjustment slots), the voltage readback on the Blu/Yel wire was +1.36V at no throttle.

I loosened the adjustment screws as indicated and rotated it back and forth a couple of times to work out any accumulated grime that might be present.

I found that by turning it almost completely counter-clockwise, I could bring my voltage reading down to +0.80V. I had seen the previous author's 0.78V setting echoed in an article on the UK website, so I left it at 0.80, put everything back together and drove off. Maybe my TPS is showing its age, but I thought I'd give it a try at this position.

What an amazing difference.

On light throttle, the tranny shifts up near the 2K rpm mark instead of 2.8-3+K, smooth as silk, fantastic. If you really put your boot into it, it holds revs well up near 4K before shifting.

So it nows shifts in Normal mode the way it *was* working in Hold mode, which still works just fine, but now feels unnecessarily tall in the gearing. PWR mode also still works as it should, holding the shift points higher still and generally feeling even peppier.

I no longer feel the need to drive around in Hold Mode to check my gas mileage, and would highly recommend to anyone having to feather or otherwise massage their throttle to check out their TPS. 20 minute job, only need 2 tools (10mm socket and flat-blade screwdriver), and it now works in Normal mode exactly the way (I feel) it should.

So big thanks to the Aussie website and the previous posters for their suggestions.

[Maddog64]

Gday all,

I am pleased to have had some useful info for you good folk

There are a few other posts re. adjusting the TPS that suggest as I found!!!! that one of the wires mentioned for using to take your volt reading from TPS may not neccassarily be the same color as in the post. Like mine I followed the intructions to the letter but my volts seemed stuck at 1v and no amount of movement of the TPS would change that . I gave up for a while then decided to try the other wire and whammo all was good

A great idea here...

Howdy, not sure if this should belong here.
For those that like to continually fine tune thier TPS and find that sticking the multimeter probe into the wire eveytime is a pain - well here is the answer.

I have added a quick connect and an open ended connector to the nominated wire, all you have to do is place multimeter probe (red) into open connector, black probe on neg terminal and Bob is your uncle>

If you do not like the idea of an open connector you can use the female connector with a small dob of silicone on the end to seal from moisture. (prefered method)


Cheers
Nigel. Delicaclub Australia



""There are 2 wires and on some delis the wires are opposite to the colours in the downloads If you put the probe in the other side you will see the difference Most people have had this problem

Chris, Delicaclub Australia""

Cheers all

Maddog64

[pajerry]

Wow, I've been wondering about my touchy tranny! I have to really feather her otherwise her RPM's are all over the place!

I'll have to try this at first light. Thanks!!

[jessef]

Hey Pajerry.

I see in your sig you're running 33's.

If you have an auto, then you may have to play around with the kickdown cable + TPS together.

When I ran 33's on my Paj, it took me a few weeks to get it dialed in. Small increments.

Good luck