Welcome to the "Last Word Café".

[Aciled]

I was always a little curious about this thread.....


I'm thinking of amalgamating them and producing an e-book for my ipad. Very interesting ideas.

Some posters may be interested in completing this on-line survey....
http://psychcentral.com/therapy/

[solanoid]

Aciled,

I cant help but feel as though your insinuating that I should seek help. If you have something to say to me, please speak your mind and voice your opinions on our discussion.

[Mr. Flibble]

Okey..... I go out and toy with my trailer and I see I need to catch up here.... Ehem....

So, let's start with the license plate in the car park scenario. We are not talking about coming into the car park and seeing ARW 357... of course that is not unique by any standard. What we are talking about is coming into the car park and seeing three license plates with ARW 357, one from BC, One from the Yukon and one from Quebec ~ and they're all lined up in a row. If I saw that I would take note: Could it be by chance? That's possible. Could it be somehow arranged? Probably more likely ~ even if it was chance that they happened to be there but decided to park next to one and other like Delicas.

Actually, that is exactly what we are talking about. The argument that 3 cars with the same plate could not come together by chance is the same argument that the Creationists use to suggest that the world was "intelligently designed" by a creator.

Just because you have seen something improbable does not mean that it had a specific cause. Again, correlation does not imply causation! This is a critical point. To ignore it is to descend down the path to pseudoscience. So, Feynman's point about licence plates holds exactly, in fact, it is exactly what he meant and why I quoted it.

Correlation gives you cause to investigate further - it does NOT give you cause to draw a conclusion from the data set at hand!

All I'm saying is three ancient calendars from three different places ending at the same time... Not ending in the same century but the same year and the solar system is lining up at the same time... You bet I see a pattern there. I also see a pattern when I look at my engine... co-incidence? Perhaps all the parts of my engine just arrived together by chance at the same time but I am more likely going with intelligent design on that one.

You can find patterns everywhere you look. And so what if the solar system lines up? Lots of celestial things happen all the time! People always seem to attribute the way certain bodies move in the heavens as relevant to their own lives - when of course, they are not. The solar system does not give a whit about our lives - and it is not even likely to be able to care. It is a bunch of inanimate matter moving around according to newtonian mechanics! (Perhilion advance of mercury and relativity included here for those who like to nitpick.)

I am not saying that the Earth is going to blow up because these calendars correlate but it tells me that there might be a reason for this "phenomenon".

Regarding the Bible Prophesy: Are you referring to Revelations? If so ~ early on into Revelations, Saint John The Divine clearly states that this event is going to take place during his lifetime.

I am referring to the bestselling book "88 reasons the Rapture will happen in 1988" Huge bestseller. Everyone has totally forgotten it.

As per the Bible, Jesus himself says that the kingdom of heaven will come in his own generation - "some of those standing here will not taste death before it arrives". But, I have no belief in the Bible apart from a fascinating book of literature.

There are many hoaxes out there, I am with you on this point. However we should not "throw the baby out with the bath water" just because the water is very dirty. These hoaxes, I might add, are not new ~ scams have been going on since the dawn of whatever.

When my wife (at the time) was pregnant with my son... I was absolutely amazed at how many pregnant women were in London that year ~ I understand that it was on my plate and I was more aware of it when in fact there was probably just as many pregnant women in London that year as the year before or the year after. I am also aware that when people are in dire straits they look for something to blame, which is often how conspiracy theories hatch. But I also know that where you have people you have politics and where there is politics there is the potential for conspiring.

We should absolutely throw the baby out with the bath water!

Why?

Because there is no evidence for any of these things - to simply rely on blind conjecture without proof is akin to following voodoo or similar things.

This internet we are typing on, our delicas, modern medicine and medical cures, longer lifespans - everything that makes our life better than our ancestors is based on a process of thought known as science. This scientific method can be distilled down into a set of rules that I listed on this thread before. These rules have been validated for about 3000 years since first starting to appear from the Greeks.

These rules suggest that we throw the baby out with the bath water until further evidence says otherwise. If further evidence suggest that we need to do more tests? Then we do more tests.

To stray from this process is exactly what leads to all the hoxes and pseudoscience - like the horrific woman Jenny McCarthy who supports "Vaccines Cause Autism". What a crone. Children have *DIED*. *DIED*!!! Think about that! Children died because this woman did not know to follow the critical thinking rules and promoted a hoax.

I think we need to throw those ideas out, bad thinking kills people.

I agree fully completely with you on the point of finding what one looks for ~ "seek and thee shall find" ~ it's called the "Law Of Attraction" but when the core columns all fall down at 56 foot (trailer) lengths and cut at consistent angles with thermite residue all over the place... well you need to ask yourself "am I drawing conclusions into this or is it really a pattern due to intelligent design?"

Now, back to 2012. Does it mean the end times because three ancient calendars are coming to an end? Not necessarily. Could it mean that? Perhaps. Should I rule it out because there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there? I wouldn't do that. Could the three calendars be "rolling over" together? Absolutely, that is a very plausible concept. In fact the planetary alignment could be the tumblers clicking over. The question is why?

Falco.

Why? Why not? That is a better question! After all, if you think about it, those civilizations already came to an end! Their calendars were way off on that count! Why even attribute anything of signifigance to those calendars at all? It makes as much sense as people attributing signifigance to the number 666 as shown in Revelations, without actually being aware that it represented Emperor Nero, or the fact that the original number was in fact, 616!

But people still give signifigance to this number, blissfully unaware of the original meaning.

So, why even give meaning to outdated calendars? Is there a reason to even give them meaning at all? Especially when the Maya themselves did not even give them the same meaning that modern people do? And, if you are giving them an end of the world meaning, why? Hey, maybe it means when they all come together ice cream will rain down from the sky for all! Just like Manna from heaven! Or maybe there will be a sudden outbreak of peace all across the world, or on the convergence all forms of cancer will be cured by science, or maybe we will suddenly achive cold fusion...

Or not.

I see no reason to give meaning to the value of a sequence of random number, and for the same reason I see no value to give meaning to the convergence of the end of some calendars. It makes no sense to give them an arbitrary meaning.

This all points me to Ubuntu. It is an open sourced, community based Linux operating system, that does not have inherent restrictions imposed by the producer. It also does not have obsolescence built into its fundamental corporate model. This means I was able to buy a computer that cost almost $4000 4 years ago for about $300 today, and use it for everything I need. To top it all off, the operating system, and all the software, including analogues for all popular applications are totally free. Tech support is free. Applications are backwards compatible.

I worked for years as a Unix/Linux admin. I was an early adopter of Linux on the Desktop - REALLY early actually. I have a Mythbuntu system for a homebuilt PVR, and I like it.

However, having worked with Linux so long and computers as a profession I no longer see the OS world in such zealotry. Yes, Apple and Microsoft do bad things. However, I only have so much time in my day to devote to a cause.

Therefore, I have an iMac which is my primary home Machine. A windows laptop provided by work. A windows Gaming machine which I use only for playing Team Fortress 2 and other games.

A computer OS is a tool, I select the best tool for the job. I am not up for trying to use a screwdriver when I actually need a hammer.

Having said that, I think Ubuntu is awesome, but always remember: "Linux is only free if your time is worthless."

[solanoid]

Mr F,

I like many of the aspects of nihilism, it sounds like you boarder on this line of thinking as well. Do you?

[FalcoColumbarius]

....A bit off topic, but a good post. I see where you are coming from and I agree. ......

Just a side note.... "A bit off topic" is a kind of prerequisite for this thread in the first place.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!! well now it is called the LAST WORD CAFE isnt it...........Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one thread that maybe dosnt belong in this wonderful deli world...

Einstein, if you peruse the pages of this thread you will see many posts that in fact have come from other threads. When a thread goes sideways the posts in question get relegated to The Last Word Café, where the interested parties can continue their banter without being tied down by silly thread etiquette such as "keeping it on topic". It also allows the original thread to carry on the way it was meant to be. Consider The Last Word Café to be the cooling system reservoir in your Delica: Often filled with useful stuff and at the same time preventing the whole engine from blowing up by letting a little pressure off now and again.

You can also just drop in and say hello, or start a discussion on something that is not necessarily Delica related. In fact I nearly called this thread "The Dew Drop Inn", after an old tea house in North Van ~ until I realised that it's not about getting your fortune read and more about getting the last word in because sometimes ~ people just have to be heard.

Falco.

[solanoid]

A Question,

I am not much for computers, no facebook or any of that crap. Can someone please tell me what the "bots" do in this forum? in the list of online users there is normaly "google bot" yahoo bot" etc. However the other day when we were having a heated discussion on conspiracies there were upward of 6 bots, including "global media bots" and other strange ones as well.

Is this normal? or is this some cia/fbi/csis/lapd shiot? omg....are they onto us?

eeep!

[konadog]

I get the last word here HAH! Doh!

[Mr. Flibble]

A Question,

I am not much for computers, no facebook or any of that crap. Can someone please tell me what the "bots" do in this forum? in the list of online users there is normaly "google bot" yahoo bot" etc. However the other day when we were having a heated discussion on conspiracies there were upward of 6 bots, including "global media bots" and other strange ones as well.

Is this normal? or is this some cia/fbi/csis/lapd shiot? omg....are they onto us?

eeep!

Totally normal. They are search engine crawlers. A bot is an instance of the search engine company viewing the web page and creating an archive and exploring the links on the page. It is how search engines work.

The only difference is that in a forum you can see who is logged in, so you see the bots that are hitting the website. These bots hit all the websites out there as well.

As for Nihilism, I don't subscribe to it as a doctrine, but my skeptical leanings have me close to some of it's values. However, I would not consider myself to be a specific follower in that regard.

I just try to follow reason wherever possible. That is, whatever the process of reason suggests is the best cause I follow.

[glenn]

Wow, things are moving fast here today!
Hi konadog,

First off, your right - I should not have dismissed the wisdom of early cultures as a footnote, and it doesn't really characterize my feelings the wisdom of past cultures and their contributions to where we are now. The point that I so inelegantly was trying to make is that the world is in crisis right now in so many ways, and we have the tools and knowledge to take action now, but instead we sit around navel gazing and occupying our minds with self-indulgent theories and finger pointing. For the large part, most of the context of these early cultures is gone, and they could never have predicted, or comprehend the dire situation we are in today. I'm not sure if this clarifies my position, or just digs my hole a little deeper.

I didn't realize mac loosened it's grip on the itunes store (yeah, is this a small victory?) However, it is actually only a small part of my anti-mac argument. And it is not true of the copyrighted material you buy for your ipad. If authors want to sell their copyrighted material through the i store, they have to agree to have the software locks. If you want to move it to another platform, say your kindle, you have to hack your legally purchased content.

And now, with boy wonder James Moore's Bill C32, this is illegal for everyone except the company that put the lock on (apple, microsoft, tivo, etc), even the copyright holder! Who does this protect? Only the tech giants. These markets are so huge, that authors have no choice but to comply - who does this benefit?

Last, the coltan issue is very real. Stephani Nolen reported from this area of the Congo- you can here some of her first hand accounts here. http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2010/1 ... p-lecture/ It sickens me that this goes on, and collectively we can demand change by not supporting it financially. Would you mind paying say, 5% more for your electronics to know they are cruelty free? (this is an arbitrary amount but I'm just making a point.)

And Solenoid - I really do like a good argument. However, you attacked my personally, and accused me of many terrible things. You do not know me, and you had no right to slander my name based on my two posts above. I'm very happy to be proven wrong, and I will admit it when I am. However, once you start attacking me personally, and not my ideas, any pleasure or benefit from the argument is lost.

And Falco thanks for your clarification. I am self employed, so sometimes I need to stand around the virtual water-cooler.

[Aciled]

I was always a little curious about this thread.....


I'm thinking of amalgamating them and producing an e-book for my ipad. Very interesting ideas.

Some posters may be interested in completing this on-line survey....
http://psychcentral.com/therapy/

Sigh...

[FalcoColumbarius]

I was always a little curious about this thread.....


I'm thinking of amalgamating them and producing an e-book for my ipad. Very interesting ideas.

Some posters may be interested in completing this on-line survey....
http://psychcentral.com/therapy/

Oh great, now I need therapy.

[psilosin]

3.) Coltan. Google it! It is used in virtually all electronics, by all manufacturers - cellphones, computers, games. It comes from the Congo. The human rights atrocities surrounding its production are appalling. As a consumer, I cannot dismiss my complicity in the market for this blood mineral. Small though my protest is, I have vowed not to buy any new electronics that contain this mineral until the human rights abuses related to its mining are addressed.

This all points me to Ubuntu

???

I like Ubuntu as well but your point #3 makes no sence to your choice in one operating system over another. Last time I checked there were no tantalum capacitors in any operating system software lol. There are tantalum capacitors in the computer hardware. Choosing to run a different OS does not magically alter the construction of the hardware it is running on.

There are likely tantalum capacitors in your Delica too...they are pretty ubiquitous in everything electronic.

[solanoid]

Glenn,

I accused you of many terrible things!? such as what? I accused you of being a zealot based upon my observation of your post, I would not consider this slander. Furthermore, your tone WAS condescending and arrogant, you riddiculed something that I think is important, as well as the accomplishments that those people had made.

Glenn-"I am very happy to be proven wrong"...sounds good, keep it up and Ill make you feel exstatic.

[glenn]

Well what I find unpeasant is people who disrespect others cultures, insulting their beleifs and rituals. Glenn, your condescending tone speaks for itself...self-rightchous & arrogant

??? I keep rereading my posts and I just can't see where this is coming from. Like I said, you don't know me and you sure are inferring a lot about me. You have it wrong, I'm sorry pushed your button with regard to the Aztecs and Mayans. Like I said in my post, I argued that the Mayans are still around today, living the in much the same way as they have been for 1000s of years. I have travelled throughout Mexico, and Guatemala and Honduras and I do have a deep respect for these earnest, humble, and hardworking people. They have even managed to hang on to many of their pre-columbian icons and beliefs by substituting many of the catholic icons in a totally fascinating hybrid of the two belief systems. I just don't believe in glorifying an extinct regime, that had it's important contributions and high points to be sure, but also it's fair share of fallacies. And they didn't have the cosmos all figured out. It was points of light they saw, not other worlds.

psilosin - my point about coltan is not about not using electronics. I know it is everywhere. My, albeit small, protest is to not buy NEW electronic devises. The lifespan of computers now days is down to about 2 years, from 4. Much of this obsolescence is unnecessary and planned - and I have found Ubuntu to be much more compatible with legacy hardware. This allowed me to buy a used computer - which extends it's life by a few years, and in turn creates slightly less demand for the metal. Really, all human rights issues aside, this is just prudent use of existing resources. This is my argument.

Mr Fibble - I have found ubuntu 10:10 to be surprisingly trouble free. I have been running it for a couple months now with no real problems. You do have to get under the hood now and again to tinker (like most delica owners like to do anyway), but overall, I'm pretty satisfied. The issue I am having, is that the analogues are not usually quite as good as their counterparts. Having said that, I've had good success running Windows applications under wine.

[konadog]