Winter vs All-season tread

[jskrepnek]

Hello,

The van is so close I'm pickin' out tires .... I'm asking this question, in all honesty, to see about saving money. Can I get by in moderate winter conditions with all-seasons in the Delica? I don't want to buy two sets if I don't have to.

I don't do any extreme driving ... just South Okanagan conditions, ice, some snow, and the occasional trip to Apex for Nordic.

I've seen lots of tire recommendations in the forum, but no specific answers to this q.

Thanks,
-- Joel

[Green1]

The answer is a definite "it depends"

I have never used winter tires, I use all-seasons year round, and have driven in some really nasty winter conditions with them.
If you're careful you can do it. but if you're reckless even the best winter tires won't help...
Winter tires stick much better to ice, but as long as you're not reckless you'll be fine with good all-seasons (of course finding "good" all-seasons vs "lousy" all-seasons is a different matter, lousy all seasons aren't good enough even in summer (I know, my employer has seen fit to equip my work van with them))

[EnviroImports.com]

if your in the okanogan, I would go with ICE tires for sure, they will do fairly good in the snow as they are for winter. but a good siped ice tire cant be beat if your on a icy highway. For here in Vic I put on mud/snow tires for going up to Mt Washinton snow and alot of people want the better tread for going surfing and some driving off road...

[psilosin]

I've found that BFG AT/KO's do a pretty nice job year round on a 4x4 here in the South Okanagan (have them on both my Hilux Surf's). Treads are pretty open so they grip and clear snow pretty good. Only place they suffer noticably compared to a real winter tire is on ice traction. The road up to Apex/Nickel Plate is usually snow/sand rather than icy pavement so beefy tread beats sipes but its when hitting highway speed icy patches on hwy97 alongside the lake or that kid that runs out at a crosswalk in town where a nice soft siped (or studded) winter tire can definately be worth the cost.

Now I'll be looking for a Delica up at Nickel Plate...

[delicat]

And if you're considering the money aspect (only 1 set of tires) then I wouldn't bother with winter tires at all as they'll melt in the summer, especially in your area. Just gotta know your limitations and drive accordingly. Good all-season will get you where you need to go, just test them once in a while to get to know them (in parking lot with ice/snow/rain...)

Delicat

[BCDelica]

It's an advertising thing, but look tires with that mountain/snow flake symbol. Both the michelins and BF AT I've bought with it worked just as Psilosin described. And as Jskrepnek mentioned, great ice tires really do melt away in the summer.

[jskrepnek]

Thanks for the replies. My business side wants to take your advice with all-seasons, but my damned conscience won't stop nattering about the ethics of trying to save a hundred bucks vs. the safety of my family. Argh. I've had a few close calls on highway 97, psi, that I can't forget about.

What about 4x4 with all-seasons? Does that help on the ice at all?

Thanks again,
-- Joel

[Green1]

What about 4x4 with all-seasons? Does that help on the ice at all?

The danger of using 4x4 on ice is that it will make you go better, and turn better, but will do nothing to improve your stopping, making it VERY easy to get overconfident, it feels like you have traction, even when you don't.

[paulmc]

If you want the best traction for ice, put on a set of winter tires.
And don't even think about the cost. Your tires will all last twice as long since you
only run them for half a year.

[EnviroImports.com]

Yup, that gets my vote also, I always put on new tires on any vans, put it into perspective. the ONLY thing conecting you and your family to the road is your tires, and the best chance you have for not being one of those 20second stories on the news is to be as prepaired as possible , I dont sell tires, but I was a truck driver for MANY Many Many years, and know the value of quality tires for your driving conditions. and besides, if you have the super exceed you most likely have limited slip rear diff so your more prepaired for the season than most people on the road.
Noel

[DelicaMark]

First time in snow was tonight heading over the Malahat and here in Duncan. My van came with Bridgestone Winter Duelers and I was having trouble getting it to fish tail or skid during hard braking (in 2WD). The same moves with my Nissan Frontier 4X4 would have had me doing donuts in the snow.

This is the first time I have ever actually had snow tires and what a huge difference they make.

My two cents.

-Mark

[jskrepnek]

Yes, thank-you, winters it is.

-- Joel

[BCDelica]

The long term cost points is true; then it's comes down to weather or not your have room to store 4 mounted tires. But my BF A/T worked sooo well for braking on steep, mostly icy hills last night. Down the road if I get some M/Ts' I'll definitely want some winter tires.

Tires are so important!!!!!! I've bought sets of new tires (also never mix-in match tires on a vehicle) that cost more then I paid for the car.

[knight]

Having worked in a tire shop(thankfully no longer) and having done some rally racing, and winter autocross I can tell you that winters are the only way to go on ice. Snow is a different story.

For ice grip: The rubber compound in a regular tire has more carbon black in it, this makes them loose elasticity at about 8*c With major changes happening at -12*c. Winter tires use more silica in there compounds and less carbon black so that they work to -20*c for most without a change in the rubber elasticity. The other major difference is sipping and air bubbles in the tread design. The sipping are the serrated grooves on the tread the block. They open and close grabbing the ice better and making the tire have a larger surface area. The air bubbles are designed into the tread to break open as the tire wears. These microscopic explosions help to melt and break apart the ice giving you more traction. Some companies go from there and throw different things into the tread to make them more abrasive as they wear. Volcanic sand or walnut shells, etc. Avoid studs as they will hurt your dry road grip as well as fuel economy for the majority of the time.

For snow grip: You want a tire that doesn't let go of the snow. That is why AT tires work way better than MT in the snow. Most AT are equal to a winter specific tire in this part, with some AT's even out performing the winter tires. Snow grips snow better than anything else. Think of making a snow man. The MT evacuate the snow and you are left with stiff rubber blocks trying to grip against the soft white stuff. I have crawled through snow up to the diffs on mountain trails, in an f350 with 33" BFG AT with out it being an issue. Get the same tires in the mud or on ice, there is an issue. The new BFG AT KO is a little better on the ice, but not as good as the new Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor. ( the only extreme winter rated AT tire in canada, the BFG KO is in the states but not up here)

The other thing to remember when looking at snow tires is the UTGC. Or the lack of one. In canada if a tire passes the extreme winter rating it is not required to UTGC rating indicating its traction (wet braking test) heat rating and tread wear. The tire industry has found that most customers are happy with their winter tires lasting three season. So that seems to be the average. Some brands will have lots of tread left after the first season, but with grip falling off sharply after the first 12k km. This is generally due to treads compounds hardening from heat. Avoid driving fast on dry pavement with these ones, not a problem in a Deli. :)

If you have any other questions, or want to know my opinion about specific brands or models of tires, let me know.

[PolyTek]

Any opinions on the Nokian WR tires? They I have a set on my Toyota 4x4 van, but only drove one winter on them (coast to kootenays and back). I thought they did very well at highway speeds along Hwy 3, which was snowy and icy in different sections. They are rated for extreme winter conditions, but come with an 80,000km treadlife warranty from Kal Tire (pro-rated, of course), but I didn't drive enought on them to see how they wore over time. I bought them specifically so I could run one set of tires all year.

The Yokohama Geolander AT/S is also rated for extreme winter.

These are the two tires I'm currently considering for my Delica, so input would be appreciated.