Deep fried thoughts

[sean]

I figured since Adam was done his and up and running.. , I would start a new post to follow the progress of mine. NIce to have a few before me travel the path. Josh, you must have hit 3000km on Veg now?

The conversion process feels like it is going along at snail's pace. But when I think about when I actually get to work on it. In the driveway, after dark with work lights after kid goes to bed. I am happy with the past few weeks of clear nights here on the island. I am happy I am not rushing it. I want to do this right the first time.

I now have all of the hardware and wiring complete in the engine compartment. I know that pictures of Pollack valves and vegetherms are probably are getting old since I uploaded the Plantdrive install and Adam showed his. But I guess each system has it individuality. So I have attached mine.

I have ordered my coolant hose, fuel line. Injector fuel line, went with 8' before and after Vegetherm. Using a flexible, non collapsible hose for the coolant. Hydraulic hose to be exact.

I have painted the tank and found a sender unit for it. The hot fox is next to be installed.

Now that the wiring is complete, next step is to hook it up to power and see if things turn on when they are suppose to. If I get power to the electric heater and valve when the valve is set to diesel, that would be backwards. I guess I could just change which side I chose veg to come out of, since I will have not hooked up fuel lines. I think I just answered my own question but anyone chime in if I am not thinking straight.

Planning on making Sunday the day when things get cut !!
Looking forward it. Only a few more late nights.....
well, on the Veg system that is. MOre projects to come. Everyone inspires me to greater things. When I bought this vehicle, the most I had done was change a muffler or easy trouble shooting. I have learned so much. Thanks to everyone who reads this.
Sean

[Adam]

Looking good Sean. I did mine in the small manageable because of the time pressures of work and the 3 kids. A lot of it you can do without completely committing yourself to an inoperable vehicle. My rule of thumb was If I think it'll be simple and take an hour make sure I have at least 3 hours to get it done, as long as my wife could drive it again in the morning without problems I was OK The scariest step was when I had all the wiring done, the VegTherm hooked up to the coolant lines and I finally had to switch the diesel supply/return over to the Pollack value. I had a few days of driving prior to make sure everything else was solid to simplify the inevitable trouble shooting when I disconnected the diesel lines and introduced all that air into the system. I was completely shocked when I switched everything to the Pollack value and the engine turned over on the second try. Good luck, I'm sure it will all work out, heck if I can do it.....

P.S.

I have ordered my coolant hose, fuel line. Injector fuel line, went with 8' before and after Vegetherm. Using a flexible, non collapsible hose for the coolant. Hydraulic hose to be exact.

I used 3/8" ID fuel line for all my coolant and WVO lines. If you have an account at Lordco the line was about $1 / foot. I should have used 5/16" line for the return from the IP to help prevent leaks, but I'm planning on changing that out this weekend.

[sean]

So I am all wired up on this fine Friday night. Connected my two red wires to the battery form Toggle switch and vegetherm. Let there be juice !

BUT

Adam wrote:
It all looks good now, although I'm able to switch the value and turn on the VegTherm without the key in the ignition, so I think I need to work on the wiring a bit more, don't want the kids being able to flip the WVO switch while the car is off and have things start to heat up.

Same problem Adam. Did you manage to fix that issue? I think I might wire the power for the vegetherm through the ignition switch. I figure if I don't get it done right away it is not a huge deal.

As for the tank I installed the Hotfox and only managed to cross thread one screw. One drill hole was slightly off.

All my hose arrived today at work, so tommorow night I am taking off and then Sunday my Deli goes onto the proverbial operating table to be cut open and come out a new van .

[sean]

Another question for anyone. I have the Plantdrive Early Switch Over Preventer, which is a thermoswitch. http://www.plantdrive.ca/shop/product.p ... 256&page=1
I am going to plumb it into the Vegmax filter on one of the two unused ports. For wiring, I go off one lead to the Toggle switch and one to the valve. Which wire should I use for the valve? And should I connect right onto the toggle or cut in to one of the wires, like the wire to the battery?
Sean

[Adam]

Same problem Adam. Did you manage to fix that issue? I think I might wire the power for the vegetherm through the ignition switch. I figure if I don't get it done right away it is not a huge deal.

I haven't found the time to look at it closer, but I will in the next few weeks. Right now I switch over to diesel after I shut off the engine, if I know I'm going to be driving again while the engine is still warm. The aux fuel pump I have helps remind me cause I can here it pumping when the engine is off. I still have to wire the "forgot to purge" buzzer as well.

Another question for anyone. I have the Plantdrive Early Switch Over Preventer, which is a thermoswitch. I am going to plumb it into the Vegmax filter on one of the two unused ports. For wiring, I go off one lead to the Toggle switch and one to the valve. Which wire should I use for the valve? And should I connect right onto the toggle or cut in to one of the wires, like the wire to the battery?
Sean

That is where I have my switch installed as well, but again, haven't wired it up yet. Basically I did the bare minimum to get running on VO ASAP. Now that I'm running without any major issues I can tackle the minor issues:-)

[EricN]

Sean if you want, post up the wiring diagram for the switch. I threw mine out and never looked at it but your problem will most likely be the toggle switch needs to be powered by an switched source, not the battery. As for your little thermal change over switch, which terminal to use doesnt matter, but I need to look at how the switch is wired to tell you where it should splice in to.

[EricN]

OK I cant sleep so I am looking at your pics and found a schematic online for the pollack.
I AM GUESSING AT COLOR BASED ON LOOKING AT YOUR PICS. I AM ALSO GUESSING THAT THE SWITCH WILL SWITCH GROUND AND POWER AT THE SAME TIME SO THAT 1 WAY YOUR YELLOW IS POWER AND GREEN IS GROUND, AND THE OTHER WAY YOUR YELLOW IS GROUND AND GREEN IS POWER. CONFIRM WITH A VOLTMETER OR JUST TRY THIS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
I AM ALSO GUESSING THAT THE THERMAL SWITCH IS NORMALLY OFF AND TURNS ON A CIRCUIT WHEN IT WARMS TO A CERTAIN TEMP.

Looking at the pics, your green wire is + when you are on veggie. THAT IS MY GUESS
The only other option is you have actually wired it up as I have stated below but used battery power for the relay trigger instead of switched power but since you stated you only connected 2 wires to the battery, I am going to assume those 2 wires are the toggle switch and the vegtherm power.

Ok, assuming that green wire from your toggle is + when you are on veggie, so the yellow one will be -. You will have a relay controlling vegtherm, 1 circuit (I might have the numbers wrong though but I am 99% sure these are the numbers on the relay) will be 85 and 86 (trigger circuit), the other will be 30 and 87/87a (load circuit), 87 being the normally open circuit. You should already have vegtherm circuit connected to the 30-87 circuit.
Now, I am betting you have the relay trigger grounded all the time and the power for the trigger comes from your switch. Change this. Power the relay trigger from your ignition switch and connect the other side of the relay to the diesel wire (yellow) this will be the ground.

******Quickest way to do it***********
*****Since you havent plumbed your hoses yet, you really only need to take the relay trigger wire off of ground and move it to a switch +. The relay doesnt care which trigger is + and which is -. Then switch to diesel on the toggle, figure out which supply and return circuit is open, connect that to diesel, then switch to veggie, confirm it is correct, plug the last hoses in. JUST MAKE SURE THAT YOU CHANGE MY INSTRUCTIONS ABOVE AND BELOW TO MATCH SINCE ALL THE COLOURS WILL BE THE OPPOSITE. IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ELECTRICAL ENOUGH, ERASE THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH AND FOLLOW EVERYTHING EXACTLY AS IT IS WRITTEN.***********


Now that thermal switch is a bit tricky. Easiest way to do it is to cut the yellow wire in between the toggle switch and the point you taped into for the vegtherm relay ground. This will make it so vegtherm isn't getting a ground and heating up diesel (assuming both run through vegtherm) or heating stagnant veggie. So you can just start the car flip the switch and start driving.
If you have diesel and veggie flowing through vegtherm and want the electric heater to start up and heat diesel too, you can put the thermal switch on the green wire. I dont know if that is a good idea since I am not sure about heating the diesel that much. I cant see it being an issue. I know preheating diesel with a glowplug style heater is a bad idea but vegtherm should be ok.
THE DOWNFALL WITH THIS SYSTEM is that if you forget to change over to diesel for whatever reason on shutdown and somehow ignore the buzzer (or you dont have a buzzer), it will not be able to switch over the pollack valve until the engine warms up enough to turn that switch back on. I dont really see that being possible since the only way to turn off that buzzer is to flip over to diesel so you should be good to go, doesnt matter if you shut the car off first or not, just shut that buzzer up. If this does happen for some reason, you can just unplug the thermal switch and join the 2 wires together for a second while the toggle switch is on diesel, then connect the switch back up and go.

[sean]

Eric,
Thanks for the info on the filler. Much appreciated.
Question for everyone. When you plumbed in your lines for the Hotfox off the rear coolant, what size tee did you use?
I have the tees that are included which the kit but realize the only included 2 of each possible size and if I am teeing for the hotfox and the vegmax I probably need 4. One for teeing in and then the return X 2.

Or I thought that maybe I could tee in to the rear heater, run to the vegmax, then back to the Hotfox, then return...

Or go inline with no tee. Pull off the existing hose, run new hose to the Vegmax, then to hotfox and then back....

I think this may affect may heating capabilties in the rear heater but not sure. Any thoughts. Kev, any more thoughts after our conversation last night?

As for the conversion yesterday, I am soooo close. Ran into a few bumps in the road but nothing to major.Worked from 7am till 8pm. Connected the diesel first so that if I have to run into town I could start her up. Had alot of trouble controlling a very leaky diesel return line at both before and after the Pollack valve. Went and bought 1/4" line today to fix it tonight.
Great to learn how to purge air out of the system, and quite handy to be able to sit in the drivers seat and turn injector nuts.

Tank doesn't quite fit as well as initially thought.
James, did you have to any mods to the Chevy (GM) tank you had? I found that with the bar that runs along the underbody of the vehicle interferes with snugging it up tight to the floor and the filler neck also gets in the way. I think I will have to block it up or something like that. For now just going to put it in the back.

I think Kev and I will be finishing it up tonight or tommorow. If you are up for Kev?
Sean

[Adam]

I thought that maybe I could tee in to the rear heater, run to the vegmax, then back to the Hotfox, then return...

I'm not using a HotFox (I'm too cheap), but from what I remember reading I think you would tee off the coolant supply > HotFox > return from the HotFox > the VegMax > return from the VegMax into the the coolant return tee. That way you only need 2 tees and 3 lengths of tubing. I'm not sure how to tell which is the return and which is the supply where I tied into to my coolant lines. It didn't really matter as I was only going to the VegMax.

[EricN]

My plantdrive kit came with 4 plastic "T" fittings, 2 for 1/2" heater hose and 2 for 5/8" (maybe 3/4" cant remember). I used the 2 small fittings on the rear heater hose and fed that to hotfox, then I used the 2 larger ones on the heater hoses that run past the injection pump (front heater) to feed vegmax. It is like they were made for it, but that larger one was a tight fit.

[sean]

Spend another 4 hours tonight working on the install Fixed up my leaky diesel return lines. Realized that yesterday I connected the returns for diesel going through the wrong way on the Pollack valve . That is what happens when I work to long on something. Anyway, fixed it up.
Drilled a hole for my tubing in the same spot Adam did and my tank will sit inside for now. Got the tank plumbed, and ran my hoses from the tee in the rear coolant to the hotfox. See post http://www.delica.ca/forum/another-plan ... 39-15.html for problems on that.
I decided to do what you did Eric and use the front coolant hoses to heat the Vegmax. Seems easy to get to and I feel better about using heat closer to the Vegmax rather than running line to the back and then to the front and back again. Cleaner looking install also. But tried the larger supplied tee in the rear ones because they were a good test for size due to ease of reaching. No Go....
So tommorow the install continues when I get some correct sized tees and finish it off.
Eric thanks for the above info on the wiring. You confirmed alot of my own thoughts. I have never done any wiring before this project but have realized that if I methodically start at the power and work my along it is fairly straight forward. I do have a buzzer but think that this Veggie oil thing is such a focus for me right now, how could I possibly forget that I running on Veg oil .
Sean

[docsavage]

Looks like things are going well Sean. I'll take some pics of my tank this weekend. I have to go out of town for a couple days and do some of that work sickness.

James

[sean]

I actually had the vehicle running on Veg for a total of 3 minutes and then STALL. This happened a few times so I guess first step is running through the system and checking for leaks. It is a gradual stall with the RPM's dropping and then nothing. Tightened most hose clamps but my feeling is that the Veg Max is the culprit. It was to hot to even get near after running the vehicle. The coolant is pumping through great and is piping hot.
So I hope to fix that up tonight before our trip to Galliano tommorow. Fingers crossed it is an easy fix.
Anyone else have air leaking in?? I just hope I didn't tighten a hose clamps too tight and put a tiny hole in the hose. That would be a nightmare to find .

More conversion stories to come as I had quite an adventure last night or should I say very very early this morning... .

There have been times, like this morning I really question why a guy like me who had no real mechanical knowledge would want to do this huge project...but I am feeling better now

SEan

[Adam]

I really question why a guy like me who had no real mechanical knowledge would want to do this huge project

I'm in the same boat, the answer is easy for me, I didn't have the $2000-$2500 to get it done professionally. I have to save my money for the a WVO filtering/dewatering setup. It sure is satisfying when you actually get it running, sounds like you are almost there Sean, good luck man.

[EricN]

I couldn't imagine trying to do half of this job without having the tools and knowledge I do (mechanic by trade, fabricator by hobby). I can't believe you guys tackle such a job, good on ya.
As for the stalling problem, you are probably right, it is air. Here is how I knew I had my problem fixed. Take a small length of clear PVC hose (get the stuff with the strands in it), attach it to the injection pump inlet, and use a barbed fitting to connect the other end to your fuel supply hose. Start the truck, watch for air. I did this and found out my problem was my fuel pickup wasnt close enough to the bottom of the tank for the amount of fuel I had put in. Anyways, do this, and see how much air you have accumulating. Then start going through the system and see if you can eliminate it.

Adam, for filtering and dewatering, I had planned on getting a powersteering pump and an old washing machine motor and couple them together somehow to make a pump. I would build a simple filter for the restaurant to use as a funnel to pour the oil back into the plastic containers (like the frybrid one) .Then I went to Princess Auto, bought a non-bypass oil filter adapter (cheap, $20 ish, turns out it is the same thread pitch as the vegmax filter but needs to cut a bit shorter to seal properly (milling machine). They also had some 40 mesh strainers there (cheap too) that fit into a 45 gallon drum but my plan was to let the oil sit and settle for a couple weeks after I get it, pump off the clean stuff from the top, through a plain 10 micron filter ($32 at princess auto, $9 for the refills) and if I can find it, the water filter one too (same price). And then the vegmax filter (apparently it is 5 micron and a water block but I could have misread) I will use when I build the still or if I feel lucky, I will risk pumping through that filter into my car. I think in the end I can do the basic transfer setup for under $200.
If you want some 60L undercoat barrels, I can get 1 or 2 for you. Might cost $5-$10 or so. Might not be worth it unless you are out this way, Or just go to your local car dealer and ask if they have any they want to get rid of.